Andrew Chau

Intro: (00:00:00) Hey guys, welcome to Asian Hustle Network Podcast, my name is Bryan and my name is Maggie. We interview Asian entrepreneurs around the world to amplify their voices and empower Asians to pursue their dreams and goals. We believe that each person has a message and a unique story from their entrepreneurial journey that they can share with all of us.

Bryan: (00:00:24) We’re pretty excited to have you here because you are an inspiration to our community as well. Every time you ask on the art community or post the engagement is through the roof!

Andrew: (00:00:33) I come from you guys as a community. I am, I was a hustler despite everybody saying, oh, you’re so big. I’m like, no, my core is a hustler. I appreciate the DNA. 

Bryan: (00:00:44) We definitely want to dive into that too. I’m into that too, because we know that a lot of people in Asian Hustle Network, they’re aspiring entrepreneurs. They’re entrepreneurs who have a lot of side hustles and also have full-time jobs. We know about your entrepreneurial journey and you actually had a full-time job while you made your transition over to Boba Guys full time. 

What was the story? Like what, what were you working as before? And what gave you the idea and inspiration to start building Boba Guys?

Maggie: (00:01:09)  I know that we know that you were working with, Bin, who was the other Co-founder of Boba Guys. We want to learn more about how you met them like what, what the chemistry with Bin was like, and how you decided to start working with this guy or what made your friendships?

Andrew: (00:01:30) I don’t even know where to start, because this is a great time. The book that we had just this came out and we weren’t even telling our origin story. Some of the stuff I say, I don’t think it’s ever really been said because this is pretty deep. I would say the real beginning of it, I would say founder dating. I said I’m going to start with just doing a side hustle. 

So side hustle, I’m sure you guys know, look at AHN, right? It’s a passion project. Usually, you’re like, hey, I’m gonna try this small thing started a group that you want to cultivate a community in New York case, our case was let’s start a little pop-up and we let’s serve 200 drinks and see how it does and it was really just drinking we wanted to drink because most people know our backgrounds is really corporate.

I went to business school and was a brand manager. I was on a track to being a COO at big companies. I was like Clorox target Wal-Mart. So when I was at corporate, corporate companies and a brand manager is just very technical,  just very like a leader on the business unit. So I never even thought about doing a side hustle. Similar to you and anybody in AHN, I see almost every one of the posts that come through. What I relate to, especially the ones that, that the peak that sticks out to me is the people who just have overflowing passion. 

They just, they just know, and it’s like a craft and for me, I do believe that society with all this stuff that’s been going on and we lost the ability to create. So my two crafts are, that it’s a business need. You guys know this because you guys don’t me personally. Those who know me, my personal profile. It got to know that I’m really into business books. I watched business leadership things like probably more than almost anybody I know and it’s just because I think of it as like, I just want to be a leader and I want to be a better leader because I’ve always been in like student government and in it. When I was in high school and then in college, I was in student government and I was in the school paper and I’ve always managed people when I was really young in my career. 

So to me, it was part of my DNA. I don’t think I was good at it, but I wanted to constantly get better, and then by now, yeah, 400 employees. Even though they’re a lot of them are gone now, but like in general, up to 400 employees, I had really just tried to figure out, well, what. How do you manage 400 boys? Cause I’ve only managed before that, like 10, 15. So there’s a very big difference in my mind in the stages, but all of that has to do with the dedication to the craft. And I did things where Bin and I were while we’re still good friends, it’s just that we just care about the craft of something in our case, again, it’s business and maybe there’s been, maybe he’s working only one of us has to be on the floor at all times.

We are trying to figure out what is the best way to optimize what we have and what we also love is culture. So, secondly, how did I find Bin? It’s like founder dating. I know people know I’m married. I’ve been married since I was young, I was at age 25 when I got married and I’m 37. 

It’s rare that you find one, the soul mate if you believe in that I found two, Bin is like my true compliment. And actually, he and my wife get along really well, cause they’re very similar and they don’t have as big of a personality, but they’re very, very low ego, very, very humble, but also very intelligent and have really, really deep, only vibe with anybody. 

You guys are actually very similar by the way. You don’t get it. You guys don’t get enough credit when I hang out with you guys, you guys are incredible,  just by the questions you had started with. You guys are incredibly deep and pensive, which I think makes it easier to then hone a craft because there’s a lot of self-reflection when you started a craft. It’s kind of like, sorry, my two-minute answer, on that whole question. That will be like deeper if you want.

Bryan: (00:05:44) We definitely liked that because it’s very valuable for people to hear this too because most people would think that, Hey, I have to add to go out there and find this cofounder that word. I just have to find someone that wants to work with me and pick up whoever wants to deal with them. 

That doesn’t exactly work that way and get that chemistry. You have to have the same vision and then you have to have the same similar values and execution. Right, without that you’re going to have a lot of problems when probably those arise. You’re like, okay, one person might be more aggressive to solve the, I’d be more passive to solve this. 

You need guys to be on the same page because this is where conflict-winning conflict happens. If I start arguing now, nothing ever gets done and I like how you mentioned that. Hey, you have to learn how you, you have to learn how to take care of your employees too. It’s very important in any industry that you work in? Well, he’s a number one, leading number one and you, you said that upfront, that’s one of the first things you said, I gotta take care of my employees. I gotta manage them correctly. I got to go from 15 to 400. The fact that you haven’t lost any quality going from 15 to 400, says a lot about your own personal character, but you going back and holding your own craft. That’s pretty amazing, Andrew.

Andrew: (00:06:58) Thanks, man. I feel you found my flame. Thank you. Well, I am Asian, so I always try to deflect. Thank you. I mean you guys are very similar, right? You guys have a great dynamic, like I know you guys are very different personalities yourself and I think any good organization, anything well run, you need to kind of have a pretty good diverse skillset and personalities.

Maggie: (00:07:19) Yeah, and I love that you and Bin always put your employees first that’s the beauty behind Boba Guys. You really cultivate that environment where your employees need to be prioritized. That’s how that’s what makes your business so successful for your employees too. 

I know that had to let go of all of their employees recently and I’m sure that was a very heartbreaking moment for both you and Bin. Due to COVID-19, a lot of other small businesses are dealing with the same thing. I think they mentioned that over 4 million small businesses are at risk of closing. So can you talk a little bit about what that experience was like and what you said to your employees and how that made you feel and what their experience was, what was their feedback and how did they take it?

Andrew: (00:08:12) The biggest thing that was crossing my mind, especially I would phase it out into like pre-laying off and then post-laying off is that nobody imagines laying off that many people and it’s not me. I’m talking to other founders and other CEOs all the time. None of us were ready to lay off that many people, because most of the time if you’re a small business, it’s like family. It is like I know almost every single person and every single person that’s employed.

There were some of the newbies I didn’t really get to know, but for the most part, I knew like 350 out of 400. Like I knew them personally. I know what school they went to or if they went to graduated school like I knew a lot of their families because we had built it over the years and so when you lay them all off, you feel responsible because many people, especially people in my corporate side, they trusted me with their careers and they, because sadly of my business persona, I was known to be a good savvy business person, but even a savvy business person where they felt comfortable, I felt like I let them down. 

I’m sure you’ve heard that and I don’t want to make it about us. Everybody who left the boat people was emotional and crying. If you weren’t,  I think you were a robot. We were crying a lot and Bin doesn’t and is more stoic than me and he was really emotional because I didn’t even know how emotional he would get and then when we were doing some of these zoom calls and Google Hangouts, we had to lay some people, the corporate people over zoom because we were under quarantine at the time. 

It just broke people and I think it broke us. It broke everyone and I think in that way, it goes to what you’re saying is like what makes somebody who they are for us, fortunately, and especially if you’re in AHN. If you are the type that started your business out of passion, out of taking care of people and it just happened to blow up the way we did. 

AHN happened to blow up. Like, I think at the core of it is the fact that you did it for the right reasons. So you got to spend anybody just spending a lot of their life staying grounded. And some of you guys know I’m a huge fan of the rock. One thing he talks about and in his whole production company is called seven bucks production and the people that I see, whether you’re in this case, a celebrity, but it’s just, I’m saying somebody that everybody knows or even other people that have made it on whatever scale, not being as big as the rock.

We’re not even being as big as Boba Guys or anything, even like one store to 10 stores, one store to five stories, or a Facebook group or a community that’s 10 people. And now it’s a thousand people, I think in any of those situations, you have to be, I wouldn’t say that people overuse the word humble, but like you have to kind of keep yourself grounded and centered. I do think that is the only way you’re going to scale. I always felt I don’t want to get it. 

I really tell my team is the rate of growth of your influence is going to grow. Iit’s going to go up, but you want the greater growth of your character to grow faster than the rate of growth influence you want the hills to be steeper. You have to double down on character more than you. You put down on influence and any anybody in AHN, most people are hustlers and they have that mentality that they’re going to grind. 

So their trajectory is generally positive growth but if they don’t work on their character faster, they’re doomed and I think that happens a lot. It’s why people lose it all and that’s, it comes to the second part, which is post-COVID when I laid people off. I mean, we’re in COVID, but post the layoffs, I had to really reconcile and like how much of my identity was my company, because our company is called Boba Guys. People knew me as the Boba Guy. So they were, my identity was almost in my name and it was weird to then possibly to think possibly that we would lose our identity. That was weird and I thought about it for a week, especially when we didn’t get loans. 

Oh my gosh. That was just like two weeks ago. If I didn’t get a PPP loan, I don’t know. I think Boba Guys was shut down at least more than half of our stores right away. Like for good because we went so many massive leases, like our San Ramon store that lease is $10,000 or New York stores, Palo Alto like, like the market inevitably shrink. 

I’m sure Boba Guys wouldn’t have gone under but we would have all the work that we did in the last few years, and we would have been set back. So those ones helped because I think we’re going to be able to get some of the loans. I think that’s the second part, which is like, how do you wrestle with your identity, especially when in this crisis it’s like, how much of yourself is, are you going to lose? And I thought if I lose Boba Guys, would it still be okay? I actually think. I like to say I have a little, a bit of my identity outside of Boba Guys, like a small business or public service or Asian American Advocacy that I know if I lose one part of it, I don’t feel like all my eggs in one basket and that’s not all who I am and that’s why I encourage you guys.

Bryan: (00:13:57) Wow. That’s really, that’s really amazing that you said all that to you because I think he’s right, man. I think that you’re bigger than your situation. When you start your business and we do anything, your personalities in prints and everywhere and this you, not that kind of. 

If you’re not growing fast enough where you can see problems more holistically, you can solve them. You can’t pinpoint it. You get frustrated easily. You stop, you don’t push forward. Then the essence, your business can only grow. As fast as you can, or, and if it stops for you, aren’t, it doesn’t grow past. You never go past you. It starts. 

Where were Andrew is right now and you have to push yourself to develop yourself because you can’t, you can’t do anything. If your character is not quite there yet, you’re going to get frustrated at the most insignificant things. But you’re wasting your energy on, you’re wasting your time on that. Doesn’t do you any good. Good and I like the fact that you pointed out that it’s great to have side hustles. A lot of people in Asian Hustle Network outside hustles and we want to trace it back a little bit too, what was the inspiration for Boba Guys? How did you come up with a name as you’re working your corporate job, what was that feeling like when you’re like, all right? Today’s the day, Bin, we’re going to start a Boba Shop.

Andrew: (00:15:28) Great question, man. It’s going to bring me back a little bit to memory lane. Most people know Bin and I met at a company called Timbuk2  where they make bags, messenger bags and he was a creative director. I was the general manager there. So I managed to like a business unit and he was directing and designing a lot of the assets for the company and we would always go out to lunch and we thought we were going to do a, an apparel company because we both had kind of like a cut and sew apparel background. 

We thought maybe that’s what we would do but when we were brainstorming, we found out we love Boba, both Bin and I don’t drink a lot of alcohol, almost nothing. I got really red, super Asian flush. Yeah, so I was like this guy is very similar we both were not afraid to say that we don’t drink. So even after work and stuff, we’d be like, instead of going to a bar or whatever we go grabbed Boba. 

At the time Blue Bottle and Phil’s coffee in the Bay area were really blown up. They don’t get one or two stores, Blue Bottle had only three stores. I think Phil’s had like two, we were like, what if we did this for Boba, what if there was a Boba and we were getting older, right? 

We’re in our, getting into our thirties. We’re 28, 29. We’re like, okay, we’re gonna turn 30 soon. What if we made Boba with not better ingredients as in like talking down, but like nobody says coffee, Blue Bottle makes Starbucks look weak. Nobody says that early days people would say Boba Guys Like was like crapping on Quickly’s. I’m like, I still love Quickly’s. I think it wasn’t that, but could it mean that you want it to be better ingredients that were empirically better?

That was organic or sourced better? Yes. During the people who care as I got older, I was going from Starbucks to Blue Bottle myself. So I cared about it and that’s where we said, could this happen with Boba? And we said, why didn’t happen? And now, Oh, and on top of that, Asians were not, there were not crazy rich Asians and stuff. So there was all this stigma and both he and I grew up Asian-American but in non-Asian American areas. 

I grew up in New Jersey for the first 11 years of my life and Bin in Texas for the first 17 years. He and I are both in non-Asian areas of New Jersey and Texas and so we both were like, why don’t we Asian thing aren’t cool like, and this is no slight to anybody who tried to make Asian things, school there’s Ben Baller. There’s Eddie. Eddie was one of them. Eddie Wong was one of them, but like why aren’t there more Eddie Wong?  So we, this is 2010. When we thought of the idea, we were like, maybe, and we’re Googling and there wasn’t like Instagram really popping off. It was just Facebook and Google and so we were saying, no, one’s done it. 

There was no, you could do high-end Boba premium Boba, all Boba artistical bubble tea like we did every version and you could go back and Google search trends didn’t exist and we’ve been saying it. So if it has existed, people would have called us out on it. So why don’t we invent the category and then that’s when our friends who knew as well were like, well, how do you start it? There’s a reason why it didn’t exist. 

Asians won’t pay for nice things. My mom even said that, I swear, mom said, Andrew, why does it have to be organic milk? My mom was one of those people who didn’t believe in organics because I thought it was expensive and I was like, mom it’s not just about the properties of the milk. It’s also maybe the process and there’s, there’s value in that she goes, milk is milk, you know, very Asian mom answer. 

Then to me, I said, well I was a trained as a marketer and I went to grad school for marketing and I was in brand manager before that and I was like maybe it’s about change, changing people’s perceptions for Boba and possibly for Asian-Americans and at the time, you only one that we rewrote this on, like on like a Google Doc, the only company we could think of was Penn express and even then people didn’t think they were super Asian. Right. So we were like, why don’t we do it based on this model? So that’s 2010, 11, and here we are. It’s crazy. Yeah. And then we did the popups and stuff, but the popups were just. That’s just executing. But the idea of that was just a lot of soul searching and it’s why you see Boba Guys to this day, all about bridging cultures, because we didn’t have a tagline back then, but it was always about  I mean, it’s crazy COVID did this, set it back.

Have you noticed Boba Guys tried to address every single one of those? So every time there was a stereotype, we made our model against it and in the first five years, I would not say this, but if people followed us, we did get a lot of hate within the Asian American community, because I would say half, half of the comments were about us selling out. But if you knew us, we roll with all these Asian YouTubers and stuff, we were always the ilk of the age of YouTubers from long ago, whether it’s Andrew or David Fung.

I watched them growing up and I had that in me, but I knew since I was a marketer, you had to repackage it in a way. That makes it accessible and then one day you Trojan horse the culture, and then you start opening it up. So as Boba Guys got big. We really with open up the culture and now we can almost single-handedly make trends, but Korean banana milk or oat milk. So now we know you have to get up to a certain size and scale for that. That’s where it comes back to your DNA. If Bin and I, those who have known us for 10 years, people tell you I’ve always been super into the culture and Asian American identity. Just because even read my old blog posts on Zynga, I would talk about it all the time. How come there aren’t Asian CEOs? The reason why I am apparently like very vocal about my public CEO persona is not that I want to, I happened to be a little louder than Bin, which is why I chose to go public. But it has more to do with the fact that I don’t see good Asian role models. I had no Asian CEOs that I looked up to. Very few fit my archetype persona and I said, I can’t let that happen. And so that’s why I’m super into leadership.

Maggie: (00:22:21) Yeah,  I really liked that because it really reminds me of like how Bryan and I also started AHN. Because we saw a lack of like Asian leaders and it was all because we went to this real estate conference and all the panelists were non-Asian? And so I feel like. We really relate to that side of your story and going back to the culture of Boba Guys, I know that you and Bin have done a really great job in cultivating the culture, culture of Boba Guys. 

Being able to have people go to Boba Guys to really connect, right, and the whole Boba Bay thing on the shirts and stuff like that. People love that,  I know that you guys really really honed in on the idea of allowing the customers to see what goes on in the kitchen and the background. When we had the other Boba shops before Boba Guys, a lot of people were all always complaining about my boba is very powdery or the taste that just isn’t there and people were complaining about that, but we weren’t really seeing a lot of Boba shops making changes and honing up like trying to solve that problem. 

I think what people really appreciate about what the Boba Guys is like, you can see everything that goes on in the background. You can see everything that goes on in the kitchen, and that’s really important in order to build the trust between Boba Guys and the customer. I know like Bryan and I talked to you a lot about the culture and your bridge, you’re the interior decor design that you put into both guys’ shops and about I know you put like a stadium kind of interior decor is one of your Boba Guys shops. How would you say that you are incorporating that type of culture and how it relates to the Asian culture in your perspective, in terms of like the interior decor. I know you put a lot of thought into it and choose your shops.

Andrew: (00:24:13) Dude, that’s a great question that I would say high level, we incorporate Asian culture and some Latin culture throughout our company all the way through, from our product to our design. So if you look at even first of all our design, if you look at the kind of like the white and wood architecture, you remember back then when we started our first set of stores in 2011, 12, 13, nobody really made that kind of subway tile white look, the only cafe that did it was Blue Bottle and guess where Blue Bottle get inspiration? James Freeman built his company off of Japanese coffee shops. It was accurate actually, a Japanese Scandinavian combination. This is where our art architecture and look comes from back then, nobody was shops, that looked like this. So it was because I was trying to get a Japanese aesthetic. Like Moogy, Moogy wasn’t even in America yet, but repetitive kind of repetitive blocking and very kind of strong angular features. 

Like I don’t get too much into architecture but a lot of my favorite architects in the world have brutalism. So there’s a lot of like concrete, but it didn’t feel warm enough. We kind of took some of the different styles, and architecture we liked and combined them. Anyways, most people will say now it’s called Japanese Scandinavian. Very minimalist, very clean, but organic materials. So that right there will tell you there’s a Japanese aesthetic and then the manual. We are one of the first terms we teach. 

Every newbie is called omotenashi and it’s a Japanese word for their customer service, their level of customer service in Japan. I’m sure you guys know is so crazy. If you’re Japanese, there is none. There is no culture that is that respectful of perfection. It’s like German is the close number two, but it’s Japanese, Japan, number one and that’s just humans, right? It’s not like. It’s just humans deciding that’s the standard. It’s not like some mechanical thing. That’s how you knew it was cultural. It was just, can you make that level of standard of service? The norm? And that’s why Boba Guys,  as I mentioned, was really trying to fight some of the stigmas that people would think that Boba shops had really crappy customer service. Nobody cleaned anything. You couldn’t see what was going on so we’d basically done everything the opposite. When we did that, we really thought again, how do we still inject small little cues of culture in there? Because we can’t forget who we are. 

For example, we have this thing called Sunny Hills Pineapple Cakes, if you’re Taiwanese.  I know you guys read the MES but it’s like going to Vietnam and whatever the signature thing is like in San Francisco, maybe it’s Garrett deli chocolate in Taiwan, it’s Sunny Hills Pineapple Cakes. So we started importing that over and to be honest, that makes no money. It comes here cause you have to air freight it cause that’s such a short shelf life, but we did it because we were trying to teach Americans what pineapple cakes work cause it’s a symbol of friendship in pineapple cakes and pineapples are a symbol of fresh events.

I want things like that and we explain and we train our team because we have a very diverse team. So a lot of our employees, if they’re Hispanic, they’re going to be like, how did you know that so much about pineapple? And they’re going to say in college, I worked at a Boba shop called Boba Guys, and I learned a lot about a culture through them and vice versa. We have a lot of Asian Americans who know nothing about Latin culture or other cultures and they’re learning what a base of an opera Fresca is. It’s like freshwater, like fruit teas. We do tea frescoes here, or I think of it as drinking chocolate from Mexico. So those small things that go both ways when you do that, we knew. It was just going to be our style. And then as a business person, I’ll tell you, we knew nobody could really, it was gonna be harder to pull off. You can clone it, which is why after nine years you would think we’re essentially an Asian American style business. You would think we’d be fully cloned by now.

No one has. Yeah, it could figure us out because what we do is not our product. It’s, it’s our culture.

Bryan: (00:28:31) I love it and It’s good because as you mentioned before you’re really into culture and were able to incorporate your interests and hobbies into your business. So in a way that makes your business very unclonable because only one on your child, we’re talking to him right now and that’s, that’s the same way where I feel like that’s a sort of. Then, I guess the roadblock for most entrepreneurs, especially that we see in Asian Hustle Network, we see posts like, hey, what are you guys’ business ideas and I said, we see comments sit. Hey, I don’t want to share my idea because you guys might steal it.

Bryan: (00:29:21) Yeah and we see that and we know the fact that your creativity can’t be duplicated. We see a lot of people actually top in copy, Asian Hustle Network groups on Facebook that have not blown up yet. These are the same color as us. The same font, the same icon. Yeah, let’s see the time. The only, only you can shape your vision the way you want it to be. Only you can infuse your personality and your own personal values too. 

Because luckily for us, we’re so inspired by Japanese culture that we believe that hospitality, there are multiple ways you can go in the restaurant business you can also go online communities like our hospital, which is our first priority, always the Asian Hustle Networks to make sure that everyone’s well is treated with respect.

We want to make sure that everyone’s there, that they can feel vulnerable if you are passionate and feel like they can share their story and that’s just, that is just an extension of who we are as people. We like listening to the story, the fact that you’re on this podcast, we were giggling about it for the past two weeks. Ever since we got you two to agree to come to the podcast, we were giggling, we did a lot of research to make sure that we want to. Put you in a position in our podcast where we can definitely show the world who is Andrew Chau, but what is your pivot insight inside your business? 

Great lessons learned for people listening. It’s if you can start out with an idea take it to the next level. It requires a lot of you, your own values, your own personality. As far as a lot of pivoting to that starting Boba Shaw, it might be a Quickly, it might be like whatever bullet shop out there, but hey, 10 years later down the line, you guys are one of our clients/ Every time, our two Boba Guys are like, wow, this is Boba Guys is awesome. We associate good quality, good service, and unique, unique branding with Boba Guys and this doesn’t involve from day one. Doesn’t have to be from day one. You just have to do it. You have to take action and just have fun, have fun along the way.

Andrew: (00:31:33) That sounds cool, dude. You got a great you are basically going to be my first publicist.

Bryan: (00:31:42)  I think I keep going back to like the side hustle thing, we’re so interested in hearing more about that because what was that feeling like when you’re like, wow, this is a viable option. We’re actually gonna do it then we’re going to go out there and just start all these boba shops and we’re going to quit our jobs. Oh my God. A lot of people dream about quitting their jobs.

Andrew: (00:32:09) Yeah. It’s scary, man. That’s a great question and I think not enough people ask the kind of like what goes into someone’s head when that happens is because just like you guys are in real estate or incorporate. In a more structured environment to leave, to leave is really hard. A lot of people think entrepreneurs are the ones who are like, Oh, they can’t work for anybody. That’s why they gotta become an entrepreneur. I think that’s the case for a lot of people, which I think that’s where I do think half the entrepreneur populations are because it can. They just don’t have a certain personality that in my case, I think you’re not gritty or they ultimately care about their things too much because I think most people do need to spend some time in a system. Just to understand how to have structure because when they grow and create their own, they’re going to wonder why they run things so poorly. 

The ones that run it better are generally people who come from a more structured background and I’m an example I wouldn’t be who I am if I didn’t come from companies, even though I hated some of my time there. I was like, wow, it’s so bureaucratic as I, my company bigger and I remember what it was like and I think I don’t want to make the same mistakes. 

So I think you need to have that. But I think another piece though, it’s been an idea another half. I think like you guys are, we do it because it was a pet project that came out of love, and then it became a thing it’s usually the best things in life blossomed that way. Right? Like it’s love. It’s like you didn’t go intentionally to find somebody. Sometimes you just meet somebody on a street corner and you, that you fall in love forever and I think the same way happens in business, the good businesses really have that. 

Then at that point, are you ready in this case in love to be married, to fully commit, right? You have to be happy. You can’t like fully get into that mind space. If you weren’t ready before you met the person, right? You can’t like to develop that along the way. You have to have the core ready to be a long-term commitment. Some people aren’t ready in the business, the same thing, some people aren’t ready to kind of make that leap. So, how do we know we were ready? A lot of it had to do with the fact that I. Had a lot of great people around me. And I’m sure we talked about this offline, the strongest leaders and people who are like hustlers, you have a really good network and ecosystem around them. You have people who band or flame who understand them and say what they’re doing right or wrong.

We were the, we had some people basically say, Andrew, you’re sitting on an idea that probably can be the next Blue Bottle at a time. That’s what somebody said. The next Blue Bottle and I were like, no, no, I can store it. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. One of them you can know who I got into my ear early was Hanson Li from Salt Partners [Episode 17 of the AHN Podcast]. Hanson was one of those guys because I knew his sister and so basically certain people helped me kind of like process does a scale. 

I asked my wife, to give me two years to see if I could scale it then I might just make this my career. Sadly, I was on the fast track to becoming a COO of like a big CPG company cause that was my true background. But I told my wife,  I’m 37 now. I probably would, might, might be a VP or a COO of almost any CPG company because of just what my style of leadership was ad so sadly, I knew that I was going to be throwing it away. And my Asian in me was like, don’t waste anything. Right? So don’t waste your career. You studied this long. I give it up. It’s like friends who beat, who went to med school. And a decade ago, nobody would go to med school and drop out. I have a lot of friends that have gone to med school and law school and dropped out.

It’s a different mindset now and a lot of it, I do think has to do with the fact that more and more of our parents and more and more of the social norm in Asian culture is you got one life to live. Don’t waste it and you’ll be miserable and there are enough people who would look miserable and have career transitions later on in life that the younger youth, the youth is like, I don’t want that for me. 

I know if I know this isn’t for me, I’m going to do something. I like, I’m going to become an actor. I’m going to start a YouTube channel. I’m going to start our real estate business, I’m going to get into the food business. There’s that? Is it a trigger and I can’t explain it other than saying it’s like falling in love when you’re ready to get married, when you’re ready to commit and when you’re ready to just take the leap, that’s the only way you think about it. And it’s very intuitive if there are all these other things that are like, Oh, maybe I should, maybe that’s like saying love and it’s like, well, you’re asking every one of your friends, should I marry this person? Should I marry? You asked like 15 people and you’re not getting one answer. You don’t get married. It’s not you, your mind’s not right.

Maggie: (00:37:21) I think that resonates a lot with a lot of our numbers in AHN as well and myself as well. I think like growing up in an Asian household, a lot of our parents told us we have to become doctors. We have to become lawyers or something in the financial field and that’s very common in an Asian household because a lot of our parents came from times of war and they immigrated here with nothing on their shoulders, nothing on their backs. All they know is to be in a company or have a safe job, work in a corporation until the day that you retire so that you don’t put any risk in your lives and what we really want to cultivate in AHN is that you don’t have to be afraid of entrepreneurship. 

We are living in a different generation and now we are living in a different era. So we can all support each other. We have so many resources not just in Asia, but in the Asian community and all communities in general and I think that it’s really important that you talk about that because a lot of us still have that, like that scarcity mindset, like Bryan was talking about. In order to overcome that is to be open with our voices open with our businesses and not see that as a taboo kind of thing.

Bryan: (00:38:40) I think it’s more of the story is do what makes you happy? Don’t feel like you’re wasting your degree or whatever of the engineering degree. I have a master’s in computer science. Okay. But I haven’t signed it. I was like, Aw, this hurts.

Andrew: (00:38:56) I remember we talked about this when we first met.

Bryan: (00:39:00) It’s a great segue too because life is a lifelong learning process even with Boba Guys, now, it doesn’t stop a Boba Guys. We see pivot Andrew, we see do other things you mentioned before you have different parts of your identities out there. That is a part of who Andrew Chau is. You’re very active in government and this is a great segue to talk about it too. How’d you make this pivot? Like, okay, we have Boba Guys now we’re going to, I want to get into this. I

We want to get into that and that’s what most people think is like, when you start your business, you’re stuck. You can’t go anywhere. You’re stuck. But no, I opened up way more opportunities for you to do more things you’re interested in.

Maggie: (00:39:41) Yeah and I want to add to that question a lot of people in AHN, are so attached to their business because they spent so much heart and energy and passion into the business and due to COVID-19  a lot of them, some are at risk of closing. So I want to like tap into it. What is your advice to these small business owners in light of COVID-19? 

A lot of people are just low on working capital, but they want to get started back in the gears get their businesses opened again, but then there’s also that risk of being out in the open, whether it be health complications, or just like the racism and xenophobia that you see and how what your perspective is on that. Like what can you tell these small business owners online, how they can pivot, but make sure that they feel safe at the same time.

Andrew: (00:40:30) Yeah both are great questions. I think, well, first I’m going to go reverse them, starting with the racism and that kind of stuff. I think what’s going out and you guys started that campaign. So you and our friends, Tammy Cho and Michelle Hanabusa when you guys did the hashtag Hate Is A Virus. That is an amazing campaign. I just said, right before we jumped on the biggest thing is like, I see the other communities getting involved on that campaign and that’s what you need. I think in that case, you need allyship telling Asians don’t be, don’t be racist is, is not. Going to be a great end goal. You need to tell the allies of Asians to be like don’t be racist to my Asian friends. I think that is what we need to do and then on the flip side, we need to do this for our African American friends and Hispanic friends, and Muslims and women and anybody who’s marginalized. We kind of have to remember to learn that’s number one, I think that’s happening. 

So sadly I think it’s a COVID to unite everybody, but that’s what happened and I think we’re seeing leaders take charge and we got to keep on speaking up. That’s hopefully a no-brainer like now Asians, generally, we’re not really great at it, but now when we spoke up, look at what’s in the media. This is our parents’ generation was much more about safety, much more about not being the nail that sticks out. 

It’s the nail that sticks out, gets the hammer down. So we’re in America though. So in this environment, we gotta be the squeaky wheel and that’s what’s happening. So encouragement to everybody in AHN, you guys on Hate Is A Virus and Wash The Hate, all the different campaigns.

Now related to what can people do to get out of this? I think it really does depend on your situation. I think, go ahead to the question about politics, which is Bryan’s question, which is really great. It’s about going back to, what do you think you’re good at? And what do you think is your core? So when I got into politics, I knew my core. I knew Boba, but I didn’t know how to make Boba. 

I knew the culture of it because I was Asian. I grew up with it and I knew roughly where I wanted to take it. But it was just the vision, but you had to know who you were. If everybody knew me, when I was young, I was always that kid who was very flexible with my culture, I was at my handle most people know is 10 million. That was since middle school. That was my AOL screen name. If what aim AOL is definitely. It was because everybody said I was a jock. I was a really good athlete. So whether I played baseball or tennis, I was great. I was an Asian kid who played in I had a really good, fastball. I could throw like 80 miles an hour. Like I was that jock, but I was also, and I was not scared of anybody, but I was also the nerd because I was also in all the AP classes. You couldn’t pin me down. And I think to me, not, everybody’s not built that way. I get it. But for me, my identity then became you can’t pin me down. You can’t label me correctly, which became chameleon, which then became, Oh, you’re not just a Boba guy. If, if the skillset to do Boba is leadership, that’s no different in politics. And I was getting annoyed enough of things that I was seeing in politics and so I got in the state, so I knew the mayor, his name was Ed Lee of San Francisco.

He was an Asian American mayor and really great guy, a really good guy. I was helping them with small businesses such as Boba Guys are growing and so I really thought, okay, well, if I can make a change and we got a lot of things through, I think I could make a change in other areas. And then over the last four or five years, that’s what happened. 

I always say don’t be the thermometer. Be the thermostat. Don’t let the environment dictate what temperature you boil at or, or hot or cold you dialed environment up hot or cold and I am sorry if you’re listening for me for the first time, you’re like, I didn’t know. The guy from Boba Guys is like, he’s such a type A and I’m like, yeah, like I’m the eldest grandson in grandchild on both sides. I was born, whether it was conditional or natural. I wasn’t, I was always like an alpha.

Fr better or worse, that’s probably why I’m an entrepreneur because while I was in corporate for 10 years, I was gritting my teeth. I was like, man, you’re an idiot. Like, let me redo the strategy. But I was Asian enough that I was very humble. I’d be like, Oh, okay, professional, but I don’t think I was being a dick. So that’s why I was just like, Oh man, if, and when I have my chance, I’m going to make the best of it. And here, here it is. So then going back to your question of what then can small businesses do just like we are, cause we’re no, we have to pivot. How do you pivot? You gotta pivot around what you think is your core competency. What makes you, who you are? So Boba Guys are a core competency. As I kind of long-windedly said is about, for me. It’s about culture leadership and the ability to kind of like adapt to cultural leadership and the ability to adapt. Well, none of it has to do with boba. So as long as it’s kind of related to Boba, it will work so leadership.

Well, we have to come out with a model that is different from most places because people are going to wonder why Boba Guys shut down for so long and are outspoken and fight for because we have a cloud. Fight for the people who cannot do not have a voice in leadership that’s leadership and then pivot, I basically have all these big stores, but I can’t use them the same way. Because you can’t crowd in our stores anymore. I have to kind of wrestle with the idea and I want to say it’s I don’t like the word humble too much because I think it’s weird because people become bowlers like moderately misconstrued.

 I would modesty is like what Asian people do, which is.  Modesty is thinking less of yourself. You’re so great. No, no, no, no. I’m not good at that. That’s the occasion. That’s not great. Modesty is not great. I think humble humility is not thinking of yourself. Right? It’s just you, you, and are, are not part of the equation. If I thought of myself, I would care what people think more. I thought of myself. I would care that the public thinks I’m weak because I fired or let go of 400 people or they think Andrew is too preachy on the internet. If I cared and I think about myself too much, I wouldn’t be who I am is actually what I like, but I don’t like that word. It’s just don’t think of yourself.

You do it for others and I do think Asians are generally good at that, but I think we favor modesty, which I don’t like, if you’re good at it, say you’re good at it in America. You got to say you’re good at it. Own the shit. I’m good at culture and marketing and I was always generally world-class. I went to business school top of my class, always a good student. Then when I was in corporate, always one of the best leaders that were empirical, I’m bad at a lot of things. I can’t cook and I’m not really good at finance.

Maggie: (00:47:54) But you’re going, to be honest about that.

Andrew: (00:47:56) Yeah you gotta be honest and think more Asians should be that. If you’re good, say you’re good and own it. When you’re a small business, that’s struggling. If the core of who you are is you’re good at hospitality, but you are fine dining. I have a lot of people I’ve been talking to. They were like, no, but that’s not what I’m trained to do. I’m like, no, you cook and you serve to change your model.

 I don’t get why you have such a big deal. Like I’m changing my model. You think I don’t want to tell people I want to customize your drinks and I built these big stores, like Bryan said, it was about the experience and stadium seating. One month since a store opened in North Hollywood, I had to redo my entire model. I can’t even look at a single store the same way. But that’s knowing that it’s not about you cause if it was about me, then I would’ve been like, Oh man, look at that is a great idea. No, that’s not what the market’s going to call for cause these rolling quarantines are going to happen and people just can’t be congested in one physical space. It’s not going to happen. They’re not gonna allow it. So you have to kind of like understand that fundamentally what’s going to change and then be okay with it. So if you’re fine dining that’s, what’s gonna happen. Let’s say you’re like a dry, cleaner, or a nail salon and your services are related to that type of customer service.

Not everyone, but I have a couple of friends that are in beauty instead of them coming to, they have a way to say that I’ve been tested or I have been whatever and proven to them that I’ve been healthy and they come to you and then we’ll still do beauty stuff. Yeah, or make a beauty kit. No, I saw that before, because it’s taken for who they are and then pivoting and I can tell you, I can name four or five friends who are doing that right now. They’re killing it. That is cause I have a mindset. That’s a hustle mindset. It’s whatever it takes. That is what I think. That’s why AHN I love so much. It’s because there are some people who are kind of like naysayers and like cynical and it’s just kind of is a trap. But 80, 90% of the comments, right. Are people who are like, I want to do this more, or I got this great idea and they’re very open-hearted they don’t care about themselves. They know how to basically pay it forward. It’s not its abundance mentality. It’s not scarcity. I will say those are the people going to come out of COVID by far the fastest by far.

Bryan: (00:50:12) Agreed and a positive mindset goes a long way too. Think positively, you have to think of your situation and adapt quickly creativity out there why do you feel pessimistic and negative? That’s the one place you won’t move as fast enough. You won’t see that in front of you. There’s always a good thing in every single bad situation. It doesn’t matter how bad the situation is. 

It’s always a good thing from it that you can learn character-wise or pivot in your business. There’s always something to do and grow. And that’s what we tried to strive for in the Asian Hustle Network and we tried to do that in a way where we’re not openly transparent about it, but we try to alternate alter people’s mindsets without them knowing it. That’s the strategy that we’re trying to do is how can we help more people without them knowing that they’re being helped?

Andrew: (00:51:02) That is, first of all, people don’t know this about both of you guys, but Bryan, especially when I first met you, you were one of the most optimistic, like growth people that I’ve ever known. Like, like you really are like, dude, I was like, you’re just, you have a wealth of, you just need to, hopefully, more people can kind of like. 

Maggie: (00:51:29) It just motivated optimistic, just full of happiness.

Bryan: (00:51:34) Nothing can bring me down. 

Andrew: (00:51:37) But you have a tough, you’re talking to before this year in real estate, I mean, that’s hurting. Right. So, but you can’t really tell people as I brought back. Three out of 400, like it’s not like I 397 people that I still like are gone. Like, but you don’t let it show up, then you process it differently. And I think that’s, what’s amazing.

Maggie: (00:52:06) I think we can say the same thing about you, we can tell that you are slowly opening up your business businesses again and I think that when that article came out about you letting go of 400 people. A lot of small business owners looking at Boba Guys for some sort of direction and because you had the courage to put that out there and not a lot of small business owners can do that because of that. 

They were looking for a guide through you wouldn’t have been and I think now that we are slowly starting to, with the light. I believe that some sort of opportunity or positivity will emerge from this COVID-19 outbreak. despite all the tragedies that had happened, I believe that there will be opportunities if you look for them. I think that’s exactly what you and Bin are doing. 

I think that’s really encouraging and inspiring to see that you and Bin are pivoting and going back, we were listening to Lucia’s podcast of Rock the Boat, and I know that you had mentioned you and Bin are pivoting and trying to do like. A delivery, instant delivery, and pickup for Boba Guys where people can go into Boba Guys and just get their boba in less than 10 seconds. 

I think that’s a really great pivot, but that also ties back to like the culture of Boba Guys. You guys really cultivate people building relationships and connecting with others inside the Boba Guys’ store. My question was like, when can we expect to see that? And how do you think that’s going to affect both the guys going forward?

Andrew: (00:53:44) You guys have like both the personal and the professional kind of questions. I didn’t know if it was going to work. So right after this interview, I’m literally gonna go back down and make drinks for another six hours. That’s what Bin was doing when he was running back and forth. It’s weird because as I said our core DNA was about changing, bridging cultures, and changing kind of like the perception of what our category is in a way we did that in the past. 

The tactic was we bring people into our stores. It felt different, looked different, smell different, and now we lose it. That ability to do that when you don’t come into a store. So we had to say, what is this? What is, is there another way to convey bridging cultures and the storyteller and to educate and show high quality? So the way we did it was, I mean, I haven’t done it yet, so I haven’t touched food, but at the temperature check myself before I go down.

So we were getting all these thermometers that we have. So temperature check just is not unique. They do this in Asia. We have those cards that they have in Asia. So I just made it, I think we’re the first people in America to do it, but I’m at scale. So we have these cards that we signed, um, and anybody who basically touches food has to go get temperature, check as long as we weren’t seeing the last 14 days the fever would break right away. So like as long as we check every day, we shouldn’t be able to catch most of the issues and then gloves, PPE, and all that. But fundamentally we had to really say, are we okay with going to a delivery model, period, and pickup model, knowing that our store’s beautiful stores are built for these exact opposite of that? That is crazy. Heartbreaking, humbling, sad. There’s below me in certain parts of the store. I see these little pieces of our architecture that nobody will ever really notice because they’re not going to go that deep into our store. I’m like, was that wasted? The millwork was wasted because I didn’t because our store is built differently now.

I do think though on the flip side, like Bryan, I’d be like, well, I got in this particular store, I got five good years out of this store, you know? So to know that it’s not gonna be fully appreciated again, I can live with that. Five was a good to run five years. Good running. Same with, I got nine, almost 10 years of Boba Guys, even a Boba Guys does go under I have met you guys. I met so many great people through it. I think I’ll probably be able to still get a job. 

Like it was a good run. Does it suck? Yes, but it was a good run and I think that kind of mindset is how we think about delivery. All that so when we open, we’re basically, as we told the public, trying to say, we’re fundamentally changed the sad part, which I don’t even know if I told other podcasters. I think it’s the first time. I’m pretty sure we’re going to shut down our factory indefinitely. 

Like I can’t figure out how to get out of it. We didn’t get the PPP loan for it. It’s a US mobile company. Yeah, we haven’t Hayward. So it’s weird. And this is like, Again, I don’t want to use the word humbling. It’s just embarrassing. If anything, it’s like the Boba Guys that made their own boba now go back and make and use other people’s Boba. I get like, think about that sentence. As for me, I had to live with that for the last month, knowing that I’m fighting to bring back our own factory. 

But because other Boba shops, right? All our supply chains are ruined like that’s an actual casualty thing. I think about the people in the factory that I don’t think they’re going to come back. Unless it’s re recapitalized. So things like that are what we just had. I’m trying to show this because everybody thinks, Oh, Boba Guys is big. They have it. 

You pointed something out and I do want to explicitly say and I that’s where I really love you guys. You guys understand us so well because we’ve never talked about this. The reason why I went public was primarily for Asian people. But the hard time showing vulnerability, Americans can cry and all that stuff. Asians shown vulnerable makes you look kind of weak. It’s like the stoicism that we, have to put on, my friend did write that article. When he was interviewing me, my friend Grant, I went to college with him. 

We worked at the school paper together and he goes do you mind if I say this? Because I said, well, what would, what would be, why wouldn’t I say any of this? He goes, if I publish this, I might say something about you, you lose because he asked me over and over how many people did you fire or let go? We let go and furloughed 400 people and we didn’t fire to be, sorry, we were let go. 

I was like just under 400 and he goes, that’s a lot and I said, that number is going to catch my editor’s eye. I said, yeah, what’s wrong with that? He goes, you don’t, you’re not embarrassed. I’m like, oh and it didn’t even occur to me. I was like, Oh, actually, hold on and I thought about it for like five minutes while we’re going through the interview.

I said It’s going to be on the like front page of the Chronicle. Right? So I’m like, uh, shoot, if I even wanted it an investor might, they might now think I’m a weak leader. If I wanted to get a loan, they might be like, why I’m going to get a view a loan cause you let go of your whole team. Whereas other people are still open. Right. So I thought about that and I was like crap sort of five minutes.

He was my friend and I told him, hold on, take that off the record.  I was debating and in real-time, I actually, because I didn’t think about it, how to decide whether or not we’re going to go live. Then near the end of the interview, I said, Grant, what, when we talked about the whole thing, do it. Here’s why I said, I said, in this, in these times I was trying not to throw shade, but like the president at the time was doing the opposite. 

I have to show that despite me supposedly being a good leader, I have to show exactly where I’m weak that way either, if people want to help, they can help and I think it will make other leaders. Show that it’s okay to be vulnerable, especially Asian ones. So that actually like was exactly why after the interview I called Bin. I said, Hey, heads up, I’m really sorry, but I just did an interview and usually I’m pretty good at interviews or I don’t say some things that I don’t regret, but I said heads up. I actually told them what we did and I’m still on the fence. But I basically said yes.

So if it’s a, no, you gotta let me know now, but we’re going to basically look weak. To the public, they’re gonna look vulnerable and he goes, no, that’s, that’s your thing, Andrew. Like, you’re about this vulnerability. It’s like, as long as you’re okay and I was like, all right, number one. I’m like, yeah. That’s why you’re my soul, my business soulmate, the number two. I was like, yeah, you’re right and he reminded me, that’s who you are. Why change your DNA? So, sorry, I answered all three of those many questions together, but  I just encourage people AHN to like be open-hearted vulnerable, positive, and, uh, abundance mentality. And I think they’re going to be set for this post COVID life.

Bryan: (01:01:26) That’s powerful to just be so open and vulnerable. I personally have trouble with that too. I tend to be on the more optimistic side. It has its pros and cons obviously, sometimes I’m too positive or I forget to like my negatives and all that, that stuff doesn’t go yawn, but you bring very important points to be vulnerable. Know, contrary to belief. We actually think you are a stronger leader because you’re so vulnerable and you’re willing to tell us that we struggle and me pretty my investor hat on I’m like, yeah, this is a type of guy that would tell me things go wrong before. So I definitely want to invest in someone like me? It’s crazy. Cause as he tried to hide more stuff and actually make yourself look worse, We’ve seen that incorporate and we’ve seen that with people who don’t suddenly your friends At least, at least now you’re transparent. 

You’re open and people would appreciate that because we live in an age now where being authentic is super important. People will see right through you. Are you authentic? Are you trustworthy? We’re supporting. Put yourself in that position. We can see who you are? You’re not scared to tell us the good and the bad, and that’s a sign of a very healthy relationship, with your wife or your significant another business partner. It helps other people as well. And I’m closing. We’re super excited. As I’ve mentioned before, were so giggly when you said yes.

Andrew: (01:03:06) It’s an honor. You didn’t say it, but like, you didn’t tell me, but like, I that’s why I, that was a real reaction. I did not know I was your first one. I thought you meant like a record like four or five.

Maggie: (01:03:14) I also love the reaction that you had. It’s like a great opener.

Bryan: (01:01:26) Because we knew like you’re talking and be like we’re so excited to talk to you. We talked to each other like definitely an honor, man. Yeah. I really appreciate you being on the show, Andrew, and everything you told us like we’re super excited to release this too, and once they thank you for your time.

Maggie: (01:03:37) Yeah. Thank you so much, Andrew. I really liked all the points that you made now, especially your last one. I think in the Asian culture a lot of us try to save face, but that’s part of our culture, and it’s very similar to what our parents are like, very careful about what they tell their relatives all relates to the Asian culture. I think that In order for us to feel inspired and seek inspiration. I think we really need to just be who we are and have so that other people can have that same inspiration. I think that’s the only way that we can get through this situation,  just being honest and, and showing that honesty to our community. It’s very important. So I just wanted to thank you for all those.

Bryan: (01:04:25) We’re gonna support you along the way.

Andrew: (01:04:27) And thank you so much now, you guys are a same goes likewise. Like we got each other, especially cause we, we, we know each other out. We’re both in the bay area so I’m really so proud of you. You guys, I know we haven’t been able to talk in the last month, but like, and keep doing what you’re doing. If you’re falling AHN, as I mean, great communities out there, but the reason why. I guess specifically, I didn’t know. I wasn’t gonna be the first, but the reason why I generally, I was telling people I don’t do many podcasts. 

So the reason why I really like you guys is that in the future, you have 46,000 members. There’ll be more by the time this comes out, you guys are the future. I’m getting, I’m becoming a dinosaur it’s these 20-year-olds that are gonna like, kind of, but I want them to do it in the right way. So if there’s any encouragement and it sounds slightly preachy, it’s not preachy. It’s protective. Because I hope you guys don’t ruin the world that the older generation did currently. If I had one chance to use it, to tell future leaders that do it right, please do it the right way. Listen to Bryan and Maggie.

Maggie: (01:05:36) Thank you, Andrew. That means a lot. We really appreciate you coming onto the show. I just wanted to ask, is there anything that Bryan or I can do, or our listeners can do to help you, uh, going forward?

Andrew: (01:05:51) Great question, I don’t mean to be Asian and deflect this, but, Boba Guys is going to be in an okay position in that. We’ve actually got a lot of help recently. All the friends who have helped us, whether it’s a nom, nom bond, or what we have, we’re still selling that though. Now I’m on bond or just people really are. We’ve been having really great days.

 We’ve been having historic highs actually recently when we opened, I mean, it’s been taken care of us. One thing that we want to do is encourage people. The loans, people know, I test them by the Congress and I’m going to have to probably, I hope I might have to go back. Well, actually, I don’t know because I don’t want to fly, but if I have to go back, we really want to talk about small businesses and how the loans are not allocated. So the one thing I will say as a PSA is especially in the Asian Hustle Network where we speak different languages and immigrant communities, a lot of nonprofits are getting tapped out with resources, meaning there are a lot of private loans so if there’s another round of PPP loans or idle loans or the main street lending program, that’s coming out with the fed. Because a lot of these loans and grants that people have the immigrant community, especially Asians have language barriers. So if you speak or write Vietnamese or Chinese Mandarin, Cantonese or Japanese help our community fill out those forms, and submit the applications.

They’re having a huge problem right now, the data everybody’s saying, Oh,  the immigrant community and lower-income did not get the PPP loans. Yes. Partly because they have a hard time connecting with the banks, filling them out because the immigrant community isn’t doing it naturally, knowing that AHN has a lot of people who speak multiple languages, please volunteer and help those places. If you’re in San Francisco, there’s a great organization called Asian, inc. That I’m going to be on the board of  Phoenix, Arizona Excel. There are a lot of chambers of commerce that do this. There are a lot of them. We just need our community to get plugged in. So that’s my one PSA.

Bryan: (01:07:50) Awesome. We’ll make sure to include that in the show notes as well. Thank you so much, Andrew

Andrew: (01:08:00)   Cool guys. Thanks. Take care.