Episode 180

Jonathan Javier and Jerry Lee ·  Wonsulting

“I remember I will send out cover letters with the wrong company names listed and would be like, "oh, my gosh!." I began to realize that no one knows how to do this job search thing, no one teaches you how.”

Jonathan Javier is the CEO/Founder of Wonsulting, whose mission is to “turn underdogs into winners”. He’s also worked in Operations at Snap, Google, and Cisco coming from a non-traditional background. He’s been featured on Forbes 30 Under 30, Fortune, Business Insider, CNBC, The Times, TikTok News, LinkedIn News, Yahoo! News, WSJ, and more as a top job search expert and amassed 1.5M+ followers on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok as well as 30+ million impressions monthly on his content.


Jerry is the COO/Founder of Wonsulting and an ex-Senior Strategy & Operations Manager at Google & used to lead Product Strategy at Lucid. After graduating college, Jerry was hired as the youngest analyst in his organization by being promoted multiple times in his first 2 years. After he left Google, he was the youngest person to lead a strategy team at Lucid. Jerry started Wonsulting to help millions around the world land their dream jobs. Through his work, he’s spoken at 250+ events & amassed 700,000+ followers across LinkedIn, TikTok & Instagram and has reached 200M+ jobseekers globally. In addition, his work has been featured on Forbes, Newsweek, Business Insider, Yahoo! News, LinkedIn & elected as the 2020 LinkedIn Top Voice for Tech & Forbes 30 under 30.


website: wonsulting.com

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Podcast Transcript

[00:00:00] Bryan Pham: Hey everyone, welcome to another Asian Hustle Network podcast episode. Today, we have two superstars. You might have seen them on TikTok and social media. They are everywhere, but today, we will welcome these two guys from Wonsulting, Jonathan Javier and Jerry Lee. Welcome to the show, guys.

[00:00:17] Jerry Lee: Thanks for having us. 

[00:00:18] Jonathan Javier: Glad to be here. 

[00:00:18] Bryan Pham: We are excited to have you guys, too, and we’ll hop into the first question that we always ask. Jonathan, tell us about your upbringing and who you are. 

[00:00:26] Jonathan Javier: Yes, I’m Jonathan, co-founder here at Wonsulting. Yes, I come from a Filipino-American background, born in Orange County, but grew up in Los Angeles and down in California, if anybody knows where that is at. In my upbringing, I have always been motivated to get into my career, make some good money, and provide for my family because my mom was the only one who was providing.

[00:00:50] Jonathan Javier: She is the only one who worked. My dad was a stay-at-home dad. It was the opposite of the mom being the stay-at-home, but it was the dad instead. That motivated me to get to my career at first. 

[00:00:59] Jonathan Javier: But yes, when I was trying to first get into my career, I could not get in because I always blamed my school. I came from a non-target school where many opportunities didn’t come about. But I realized through networking, that optimizing your resume is the strategy that we teach at Wonsulting. I was able to land my first job at Snapchat, so I worked at Snapchat, first. 

[00:01:19] Jonathan Javier: Then, I went to Google for a little bit. I worked at Cisco, and I thought that the corporate lifestyle, that tech-like working in tech, was the big thing for me at first. I thought that was my dream job. When in fact, I realized that helping people get into their dream jobs was my dream. Doing it with a co-founder like Jerry makes it even better.

[00:01:36] Jonathan Javier: So co-founding Wonsulting in about 2019, it was just an idea at first. It became a full-fledged business. We have been on it for about two years so far and have enjoyed it so much, especially helping millions of people on our social media following. That’s a little bit about me.

[00:01:50] Jonathan Javier: I’ll hand it off to Jerry. 

[00:01:52] Jerry Lee: All right. Bryan, thank you for having me here. I’m so excited to be here. As for people who may not know, my name is Jerry, the other half of Wonsulting. Similar to Jonathan, I grew up in a first-generation, low-income household, where my family didn’t have all the resources or connections to get into these bigger companies. 

[00:02:15] Jerry Lee: And so, I remember when I was a freshman in college, I told my parents, “Hey, listen, from now on, I’m going to be financially independent of you guys. I’m going to help support you, even during my college experience and more beyond that.”

[00:02:28] Jerry Lee: From there, that has been my guiding principle for my motivation. Who am I? What I want to do with my career and so on. I started my career at Google. I was there for a couple of years before I left to work at another company. And similar to John, the passion for helping others to find their careers through consulting came from me. Having to do all that myself makes all these rookie mistakes.

[00:02:50] Jerry Lee: I remember I will send out cover letters with the wrong company names listed on the actual. I would be like, “oh, my gosh!” Through these experiences, I began to realize that no one knows how to do this job search thing. No one teaches you. And if you don’t have family members or people in your immediate network to help guide you, you are going to spend three to five years, every career, figuring it out. Then, you’ll start to get deep into your career.

[00:03:18] Jerry Lee: And that was something I felt since I started college up and still today. Whenever we talk to members of our community, we keep hearing the same type of themes. That is what motivates me. That is what m us to come together to start and help people turn from hundred dollars into winners.

[00:03:37] Bryan Pham: I love the mission. When I did some Google research earlier, I saw that the mission statement immediately was, ” help underdogs be winners”. That’s right. I love the underdog story. I feel like there are more underdogs out there than there are people who are born into privilege.

[00:03:49] Bryan Pham: I like the fact that you guys can gather stuff from your own experience. Like how do we gain a competitive edge by not coming from an elite school or an elite background or whatever connections that we have so that we can all become winners? So out of curiosity, how did you two meet?

[00:04:03] Bryan Pham: How does this idea come up? I’m curious. 

[00:04:04] Jonathan Javier: Yeah. So we met on our favorite platform, our favorite dating platform. Now I’m kidding. We met on LinkedIn. Funny story, I was at Snapchat and Jerry was at Google and basically, what happened was I reached out to him on LinkedIn, saw that we had some mutual connections and we were able to have a phone chat or coffee chat.

[00:04:24] Jonathan Javier: Jerry was one of the first people who was working at Google, who gave me some advice on how to break into tech. And so was able to break into Google about maybe a few months later. And then Jerry was like, oh, when you move up to the bay, let me know. And maybe we can host something together.

[00:04:41] Jonathan Javier: And we had our first workshop, I remember at UC Berkeley. And I was like, Hey, Jerry, you want to go do a workshop with me? And so we did our first workshop there in about November 2018. I believe. and ever since then, we’ve been doing so many workshops just to help many folks from different backgrounds.

[00:05:00] Jonathan Javier: And it’s just crazy to think that we were once in the corporate world thinking like, Hey this is what we’re gonna do going tohe rest of our lives. And now we get to do something we’re extremely passionate about and excited to help more people. 

[00:05:13] Jerry Lee: Yes! One thing that John didn’t mention is that I think before, and this is maybe starting in mid, late 2017 was when John graduated college. I remember seeing him on LinkedIn, like crazy. He would post. He would do local workshops all across the soul call area. I remember I came across his profile because a couple of my friends were connected to him.

[00:05:35] Jerry Lee: They liked some of his content. So I was like, ” this is super cool because I used to do a lot of these workshops when I was in college”. So that’s where the whole, “Hey, whenever you come up to the bay area, let’s do something together”, came up. Fast forward, three and a half years, and here we are crazy.

[00:05:50] Bryan Pham: Yes, I love how organic this is. And I love it almost like the beginning origin stories because it makes you feel like anyone can get started. I feel like most Asian people, you don’t go into your corporate thinking that you’re going to be an entrepreneur, right?

[00:06:04] Bryan Pham: You don’t go into your corporate career thinking you’re going to do this and that. We are always programmed to go down the safest path. That our parents taught us like, Hey, get a nice high-paying job, get a house, get married, get a nice car, whatever it is that is very comfortable. I like the fact that you guys organically let this happen, with the clear mission of helping the community. 

[00:06:23] Bryan Pham: It’s necessary now that I think about it in my career. I would ask a lot of my random friends to look through my resume and be like, Hey can you help me out? I’m trying to get this job passed. I honestly didn’t know what the heck I was doing. If you see an online Google resume helper, you get like a random popup. And you’re like, I don’t know if I can trust these people, man. Like how do you know about helping me? 

[00:06:44] Bryan Pham: When you guys first got together, what was the turning point where you realized that Wonsulting was something bigger than you thought?

[00:06:51] Bryan Pham: What was a turning point where you are just like,” we can turn this to businesses and help more people”. What was the thought process behind that? What was the turning point behind that?

[00:06:59] Jonathan Javier: Yes. I think maybe Jerry has very similar thoughts. I think the turning point was when COVID happened during the pandemic. What happened was that we started this initiative. Those who got laid off and lugged from their jobs, had their internships rescinded.

[00:07:15] Jonathan Javier: As you can see in the market today, many jobs, especially in tech, there’s a lot of layoffs happening. Jerry and I started this initiative with the speaker series where we did workshops every single week. We had speakers and panelists from different companies who were recruiting students, job seekers, and professionals who had lost their jobs.

[00:07:33] Jonathan Javier: During that time, we saw huge engagement. We would see ten thousand people at 10-hour events and they were all online. It’s just a really interesting switch from being everything in person, which we were doing a lot in the bay area in SoCal, to now being a virtual world where everybody could attend worldwide.

[00:07:52] Jonathan Javier: When that happened, we just saw a huge jump with a lot of our followers. A lot of people sign up for services. A lot of people sign up to work with us one-on-one, because we do one-on-one services. Then we realized, oh, we can’t just do this ourselves. There are too many people signing up. So thinking, how do we scale the business?

[00:08:10] Jonathan Javier: How do we get more people on board? How do we build on an actual team? And so I think that was the spark of, okay, let’s just do this full time and let’s just see what happens if it fails, just go back to corporate. I think it was at first difficult to leap, but sometimes you just have to make that leap and test.

[00:08:29] Jonathan Javier: See if it works and if it doesn’t, just go back into the job market. I think that was a big turning point for us, especially when going full-time. 

[00:08:38] Bryan Pham: It’s never easy going full time. I’m glad you guys did it, and I have a lot more questions to ask and I’m probably going to target Jerry since he’s a COO.

[00:08:45] Bryan Pham: I’ll hop into the operations side. When you guys finally figure that this can be something bigger, how did you approach scaling your business? Especially at the early point where you don’t have a lot of cash at the beginning, any startup. How did you overcome that issue and continue scaling your team and worrying about creating cash flows for your company?

[00:09:02] Bryan Pham: What was the business plan like? 

[00:09:03] Jerry Lee: Yes. Funny enough is that I don’t think John or I ever sat down together and said, all right, this is going to be our business plan. Here’s like our competitors, the market. Here’s all the research. We just kept adapting because people kept asking. To what John was saying, in the earlier stages of law consulting, I remember, I would love to just do resume revisions for people for free.

[00:09:24] Jerry Lee: And I would just be like, genuinely love doing this. And after doing about 50, eventually, you get a pretty good idea of not only combining your experiences in recruiting. But also then, seeing it on all the pieces of paper and seeing what works, you begin to pattern recognition kicks in very quickly.

[00:09:41] Jerry Lee: So when we were scaling Wonsulting, the biggest question that we had was, people, are coming to us because they want to get services done by Jerry and Jonathan, not Wonsulting. That was probably the biggest hurdle that we had to overcome. One of our friends, Lee, if you’re listening to, shout out to you, was saying like, Hey, listen, if you guys are doing good work and preaching the good word, then people will come to you. It might be that they’re doing work by John and Jerry, but most importantly, they are who you are. They’re getting the end output that is approved by John and Jerry.

[00:10:14] Jerry Lee: And so as soon as we had that mentality shift, we said, okay, cool. Who are the people from our community? Who come from non-traditional backgrounds who work at these bigger companies and have a big passion for helping others. And Jason, who was one of our first resume writers and is one of our best resume writers, is still with us today. He said, Hey, listen, I’ve interviewed these 10 different tech companies in my first year, I’m constantly interviewing. I think to this day, he probably interviewed over 40 top biggest companies out there. He said I’m happy to help you guys. And as soon as we saw that model work with one person, then we said, cool, let’s start bringing on five more.

[00:10:52] Jerry Lee: Let’s start bringing on 10 more and then these. As we continue to scale, the biggest thing that they think about is we are creating systems and processes such that we can ensure that there exists a quality standard, a turnaround standard that we are comfortable with. And that’s where we are.

[00:11:08] Bryan Pham: That’s major. Being able to scale and create systems and processes. So early on and quickly, it’s almost like stepping from a fire hose, your business growing so fast. And you’re trying to scale. You’re trying to maintain quality. I think that’s the biggest thing too because I feel like for most entrepreneurs it’s not the money that runs out for it, but the energy. Am I still excited about doing this every single day? It’s almost like redundant work, but honestly, that’s how most businesses work. 

[00:11:30] Bryan Pham: So out of curiosity, as you’re scaling your team to a much bigger size, what qualities do you look for when you hire people on your particular team and how do you maintain your culture internally?

[00:11:40] Bryan Pham: I ask that question to Jonathan. 

[00:11:42] Jonathan Javier: Yes, when we look for talent, we look for two things. Of course, you fit the qualifications for that specific role. I think what’s important too, is you’re all about our mission. Individuals who also come from a similar background, as underdogs that are from non-traditional backgrounds are maybe underrepresented or just not as privileged.

[00:12:04] Jonathan Javier: Those individuals we’ve seen that have joined our teams from the past and the present. These individuals are the ones that are standouts. The reason why a lot of them are motivated, they’re striving toward admission. It isn’t just a nine to five. You can see this throughout the culture of our team.

[00:12:20] Jonathan Javier: Like we try to have a lot of internal events. For example, Jerry just did an event about two weeks ago, about prioritization. Last week, we did a team event, which was an escape room, which everybody enjoyed and we were able to solve it. We thankfully solve it in 53 minutes out of the hour. So I think, of course, bring the qualifications to the table. You fit most of the job description requirements, at least 80%. If you’re able to exemplify, like, why do you want to join our actual company? It’s not, oh, because I want to just work nine to five and make money. It’s because I want to help more underdogs to lawyers.

[00:12:53] Jonathan Javier: I want to help more people, land jobs, just like you and Jerry. Do I feel like those individuals? We have our team and that’s why our team is always growing and just always thankful for the amazing team that we have here at Wonsulting. 

[00:13:07] Jerry Lee: If I could add to it, I also think it’s cool that we are in control of our recruiting process because we can implement everything that we preach.

[00:13:14] Jerry Lee: So for example, one of the things that we preach often is that someone doesn’t need to do the job for them to be good at a job if they can have those relevant skills that are transferable. Awesome. Let’s do it. Our operations manager we just hired has a background in managing a coffee shop, nothing related to doing anything eCommerce or service career-related business. Nothing kills it. Our product manager is a college student. What was a college student? He dropped out of college but he’s probably the top five people I’ve ever worked with among the people I’ve worked with at Google and everywhere.

[00:13:47] Jerry Lee: And the list just goes on and on. I could tell you something, that’s incredible about everyone on our team. But we didn’t go through the traditional route of, okay, they must go to Harvard. They must have well on their resume and only then they are qualified or considered good. We very much adopt a lot of the principles that we preach. Having this salary and the job descriptions and so on because we are being the change that we want to see in the industry.

[00:14:10] Jerry Lee: And so little things like this start with us. Beyond what John said, John has the innate ability to recognize top talent. He is incredible. And so I think with the balance of those two things, it helps us find and source top talent. 

[00:14:25] Bryan Pham: It’s cool hearing you guys compliment your skill together.

[00:14:27] Bryan Pham: Honestly, take the whole village to make a company successful. It takes two co-founders believing in the mission to drive through all. The uncertainty and crap that goes on and what we hear so far is all the great side of running a business.

[00:14:42] Bryan Pham: We want to hear the bad side now, but the size where you wake up, you’re like screaming in your pillow. You’re banging your hands, bringing your head against the wall. And you’re like, why am I doing this? Why is this so hard? I could be having a corporate career, going back to a job, and just living a very simple, happy, warm life, comfortable life.

[00:14:57] Bryan Pham: Talk to me about your bad times. What situation made you feel like, oh man, am I the one that should be leading this organization? Because imposter syndrome happens a lot in entrepreneurship and honestly, I don’t think it’s about enough among the Asian community or in the entrepreneur community in general.

[00:15:15] Bryan Pham: So I just want to hear about your bad days. What instance made you rethink everything? How’d you overcome that and how’d you keep your mental health in check too? They say that entrepreneurs are statistically the most depressed people out there, for good or for bad, but I just want to hear about your story.

[00:15:29] Jerry Lee: Yes, it’s interesting for us because not only John and I are entrepreneurs, but we’re also creators as well. So when you mix those two things, I think things feel a little bit weird sometimes. You’re like, am I a creator? Am I an entrepreneur? But one of the hardest parts, especially when we were first creators, was when every creator got to hate.

[00:15:47] Jerry Lee: When we first got our first wave of hate, we’re like, huh, like, are we truly like doing this with ill intentions? John and I talked about the law. Like we question, should we even be truly doing this? But I think for me, what helped was that John says this all the time.

[00:16:04] Jerry Lee: Why give energy to the 1% of people who are haters and not give energy to the 99% of people who love the work that you’re doing? Like we know our intentions, we know why we are doing it. We know why we put our lucrative jobs in tech, where we could be making so much more money to a lower-paying job, where arguably we have to work more and the work never stops for us.

[00:16:27] Jerry Lee: It goes back to why we even started consulting in the first place. And so I think the initial wave of hate was something where I had to question, do I even want to create content? Do I even want to continue to do this? What am I even doing, type of mentality? I think that was probably one of the first and hardest things to swallow, but now I very much welcome hate.

[00:16:47] Jerry Lee: I’m like, Hey, if you’re going to hate my content, don’t create a separate TikTok, just comment on my video. So at least you’ll boost the engagement. All right. 

[00:16:53] Bryan Pham: That’s also my mentality too. I think, I feel like, what hate and spam are. Okay. Just make sure it’s on my video, not your video.

[00:17:00] Jonathan Javier: Yes! 

[00:17:01] Jonathan Javier: I was going to add to that quickly, but good, Jerry. It’s focusing on the 99% of people who support you rather than the 1% who don’t. 1% is usually the trolls, they are just individuals who you don’t necessarily know. But who wants a response from you? And we’ve noticed, and learned throughout the past couple of years, that it’s okay like maybe you’ll get a hate comment.

[00:17:20] Jonathan Javier: Maybe you’ll say something. Someone will say something bad, but what usually happens in Jerry’s, made me realize this a lot too. For example, maybe we have a client that didn’t have a good experience, but we had 99% of other clients that had an amazing experience. For some reason, we focused on that 1%, right?

[00:17:36] Jonathan Javier: How do we duplicate the 99%? How do we keep them going and keep them more engaged? Having that mentality is a second thing I would say too, which wasn’t a bad sense. But just for me personally, I remember last year, I was a very yes- person, meaning I would always say, yes, let’s do this.

[00:17:53] Jonathan Javier: Didn’t want to get in too much like conflict, or I thought that it would be conflict. But what I realized is that by questioning things, and then also thinking more in-depth about what’s going to help us with the business and grow. I think that’s helped a ton. Jerry has helped me realize more in regards to my decision-making.

[00:18:12] Jonathan Javier: So I feel like I’ve grown a lot throughout the past couple of years as a decision-making tool. 

[00:18:16] Bryan Pham: That’s awesome too. Jerry, do you want to add something? 

[00:18:18] Jerry Lee: I think to John’s point, around the decision making, not wanting to stir the pot, I think, very much comes from even for me, as it stems from when I was growing up. I was always told, listen, don’t stir the apart too much. Work hard. Keep your head down. Get it done because that is the way to success. 

[00:18:35] Jerry Lee: In a lot of immigrant families that sort of thought process is ingrained in our blood. When you try to go against that, it feels unnatural. I think, especially coming from an Asian background, that’s something I had to overcome. Still continually working on and, thankfully, it’s good to have someone like John to be my accountability partner where we can both call each other out and say, Hey, listen did you act, did you agree? Or are you just agreeing too? 

[00:19:00] Bryan Pham: Yeah. Those are the type of best partnerships, and unfortunately, sometimes you get very unprofessional. But you need someone to keep yourself in check and give you that all like a super-reality check, like for sure. Otherwise, you don’t know if your company’s going in the right direction.

[00:19:12] Bryan Pham: If someone keeps telling you, Jerry, great job, Jerry, oh, I love that program, it’s always the one that goes, Jerry. I think you do that better. As long as it stays constructive and not toxic, that’s the most important part. I’m glad that you two have each other through this journey because it’s tough.

[00:19:27] Bryan Pham: Getting to the hate comments, getting through decisions, making all those things, there’s a lot of stuff for us to unlearn culturally like that. Why not me? Like, why can’t I do it? I’m awesome. Why can’t I do it? And sometimes, not only do you need to be your own biggest cheerleader, but you need someone else to cheer you on as well through the darkest.

[00:19:44] Jerry Lee: What’s funny about balancing the dynamic between me and John is I feel like on the spectrum of being like a “yes, man” and like a” toxic, no”. Like I think we are both on the opposite side of the spectrum. John is nicer, yeah, for sure. I’m more the, no, are you sure what’s the reasoning?

[00:19:58] Jerry Lee: And so it’s interesting. I think we both started on the opposite sides of the spectrum and now we’re learning about how we can be more towards the middle, and less so on the opposite ends. But yeah, I remember, I think John could tell you a lot of stories about how in the beginning, I would just be a completely toxic person and just say no to everything.

[00:20:16] Jonathan Javier: I would say just to add real quick, Jerry’s questioning improved the team significantly. I think the culture of Wonsulting is that everybody is so dedicated to the mission and the company. They always ask questions for the betterment of the company.

[00:20:29] Jonathan Javier: Before in the beginning, everyone would just be like, okay let’s just do it like down, but now I’ve seen so much growth in. Many different people on the team, whether it’s our marketing manager, whether it’s our product manager asking these questions and then helping us take a step back and then say, okay, is this the best decision for a company?

[00:20:44] Jonathan Javier: And for us, I think, because of that mentality, Jerry’s speaking about helped our team significantly. I love that. 

[00:20:51] Bryan Pham: I would’ve got it. I would’ve switched up. I would think that Jerry’s going to be the one who says yes to everything and John says, no, but I’m glad you guys cleared up during this podcast.

[00:20:59] Bryan Pham: And I want to ask a question about your energy levels, right? And the reason why I ask that, is because you’re both a content creator and an entrepreneur, right? How do you keep your motivation high? How do you keep yourself refreshed? How do you find a balance between working and not working?

[00:21:16] Bryan Pham: Because that is a struggle for most entrepreneurs. There’s always something to do, always something to improve. You’re thinking about it all the time. When you wake up, when you sleep when you shower on weekends, how do you keep yourself for a lack of a better term moving forward and keeping yourself refreshed?

[00:21:31] Jonathan Javier: I think what pushes me a lot is that we hold each other accountable, right? If something gets repetitive or something that we’re tired of, we’re very transparent with each other. And I feel like that transparency has helped us a ton, especially with growing. For example, one of the things I recently experienced was content burnout, right?

[00:21:50] Jonathan Javier: Because sometimes you’re talking about job search, you’re creating content to help people get jobs. It’s great. But sometimes it’s, oh, I just already did this. I already talked about this too. So I remember telling Jerry about this. I was like, dang. I feel like I just talk about the same thing over and over again.

[00:22:03] Jonathan Javier: But Jerry was like, why don’t you go do something else, something new, and go out there? Have fun with it. And so like in the past couple of weeks I’ve been having fun with it. Like I went out, did some interviews with some people, tried to get their reactions from actual hiring managers, and took a look at resumes.

[00:22:18] Jonathan Javier: I feel like that fun aspect of your work has evolved. I feel like when you’re able to have that and not just see a job as just a job, a nine to five, but something you truly enjoy doing every single day, I think that’s one of the most important parts, especially with continuing the work that you do.

[00:22:36] Jerry Lee: Yes, I would agree. I think the first thing that comes to mind. For me, it is like allocating time between being a content creator, as well as being an entrepreneur. And I think thankfully with the content that we create, it doesn’t require us three weeks of editing for us to get one piece of content out very much.

[00:22:56] Jerry Lee: We strive to be more educational rather than entertainment, quality editing, and so on. But as John mentioned, yes, sometimes it can be very exhausting, especially when you’re pumping out two to three pieces of content every single day for a year and a half after a certain point, it just becomes oh, my, like you wake up. You’re like, do I have contents backed up? No. Okay. I guess I’m going to hop on a camera right now, even if I don’t want to be. And so that can very much be draining at times. But as John mentioned, I think at least on the content side, thinking of it as more fun and more, hey, this is a hobby that we can do. But also being cognizant of how we can then weave that into the success of our business.

[00:23:38] Jerry Lee: I think it’s incredibly important. As an entrepreneur on the entrepreneur side of things, I think the biggest thing that John and I have learned in the past six months has been delegating. Making sure we’re okay to let go, giving people more trust by saying, listen, this is your ownership and I am here to help you solve these problems.

[00:23:58] Jerry Lee: But I am not the person to do all the work for your type of thing. It has helped us get a much better, work-life balance in a sense. So it’s cool to see us develop as a leader, but also more importantly, as someone who is trying to make sure we have a life outside of work as well. 

[00:24:16] Bryan Pham: I think you touched upon a really good point too, right? Being a delegate. I used to have problems delegating just because I’m very particular with the way I like to do things. What’s crazy is the more you delegate, the more involved the team is right?

[00:24:30] Bryan Pham: They feel like they have a voice and opinion inside your organization. Most of the time they’re better than you. I can honestly say that, like some things I thought I was good at, then I’m like, wow, like this is a different perspective. And that does things so much better.

[00:24:43] Bryan Pham: It builds team culture. It builds trust. And honestly, it helps you guys save your mental energy because sometimes as you guys know, there are a lot of different fires that happen every single day. Whereas you wake up, you’re like, wow, that was unexpected, not a horrible day.

[00:24:59] Bryan Pham: So what’s next for Wonsulting, right? As you guys continue to evolve your platform and what you guys do online, what can we expect from you guys next year, two years, or five years from now? 

[00:25:10] Jerry Lee: Yes, I think two things on the creator side of things, you’ll begin to see a lot more thought-provoking type of content.

[00:25:17] Jerry Lee: One of the things that John’s working on, at least on the content side, is how do we include other people’s thoughts and stories into the real-life process of job search. On my end, I’m doing a lot more research projects. If we had the two same resumes, one was a female name and a male name.

[00:25:32] Jerry Lee: What would get more interviews? So really trying to push the boundaries of being a thought leader within this space. That’s what you can expect on the content side. We are trying to innovate a bit more on the content and being thought leaders there and in the business. I think what you’ll find from us is refinement.

[00:25:48] Jerry Lee: I think we have thought through the service model that we want to have. What we feel like is a formula for someone to get a job. And so I think refining that model and making sure that we all users have a very cohesive experience, I think is going to be important.

[00:26:03] Jerry Lee: Most importantly, how we can use technology to better enhance the experience. We showcased a product to the world about a month and a half ago called a resume, which is a machine learning tool to help you write your resume bullet points. If you guys thought that was full now like you wouldn’t believe what we have in the pipeline coming down for you guys.

[00:26:23] Jerry Lee: So like really those three pillars, the content refinement, and pushing the boundaries, I think are going to be the three pillars of our next six to 12 months. 

[00:26:34] Bryan Pham: That’s exciting. We’re going to look forward to it all. I was telling Jerry before the podcast that he lives on my TikTok for your page.

[00:26:42] Bryan Pham: Every time I log on this, dude, it’s always giving me resume advice and I’m like, man, should I just go ahead and apply for a corporate job again? Because it is really good advice. Go to do it. But yeah, as we’re approaching the next part and the last part of the podcast, I’m going to ask two different questions.

[00:26:57] Bryan Pham: And for Jonathan, I’m going to ask you the question, what would be one piece of advice you would give to an inspiring entrepreneur? Just getting started with their career.

[00:27:05] Jonathan Javier: Yes, I would say perspiring entrepreneurs, the way I think of it is that, we’re working at big companies, it is definitely important to learn the different processes, how they recruit and more, and then having your side hustle as an entrepreneurship route.

[00:27:24] Jonathan Javier: Then once you get your full-time business or once you get your full-time role, basically you’re tired of it. You feel like you’ve already reached your peak, then you switch to doing that side hustle as your main hustle. I think that was important to me. For example, what I would do is I worked on those respective companies like Snap, Google, and Cisco. Whatever money I made there, I would invest it back into long consulting.

[00:27:45] Jonathan Javier: For example, when I was first starting. By doing that, you could just see, like, how do these companies recruit from Google or Cisco or whatever it is? So for those who are trying to start their businesses, my advice would be to break into a company. Break into a company that has something that you want to do later on as an entrepreneur. You can learn about exactly how they do it and then implement it in your own company except having your spin on it.

[00:28:12] Jonathan Javier: That’s how I learned, especially with growing with blunt consulting.

[00:28:15] Bryan Pham: That’s really good advice. I used to think I was the only one that thought that way, very much the same way. I joined smaller startups. I can learn assistance and processes because I felt like going to bigger companies.

[00:28:25] Bryan Pham: I was just a piece in the puzzle. I didn’t know about the culture. I didn’t know about financial reports or recruiting, all that stuff. So I agree with that advice, Jonathan. Great tip. And for Jerry, what advice would you give to inspire inspiring content creators, just getting started? 

[00:28:39] Jerry Lee: The advice that I would give to an aspiring content creator would be to hit up John for content advice. I followed everything that John told me. But in all seriousness, I think the biggest thing I learned from John around content is an 80% solution that you can post. Today is so much better than a hundred percent piece of content that you can post for three weeks.

[00:29:03] Jerry Lee: And so when people first got started, I think especially me, I was very much focused on getting the frame perfect for my captions. And then I would edit every little nuance detail. And if I was like, oh wait a hair is misplaced here. I got to re-record the whole thing. I remember I was so afraid that people would care about these minute details.

[00:29:21] Jerry Lee: When in fact people like it, when content feels a little bit more personal, it feels less corporate. Feels like you didn’t invest hours into creating this content. Of course, unless that’s what you want to go for. If you want to be a Mr. B-style type of creator, then you should do that.

[00:29:40] Jerry Lee: But for every day, people like me, what I think matters most is just getting into reps. Because the more that you can get the reps the higher chances, you’ll have of actually learning how to be a better creator yourself. Perhaps you’ll even be able to edit faster. You’ll be able to think about new software, like using CapCut, whatever. And so that’s what I would say. 

[00:30:00] Bryan Pham: Great advice as well. I think the hardest thing is getting started. I think also the harder thing is finding your niche. Something that you’re passionate about talking about almost every single day, right? If you’re not passionate about it, it’ll show in your content. They’ll go, oh, this guy doesn’t like what he’s talking about.

[00:30:14] Bryan Pham: How can our listeners find out more about you guys and more about Wonsulting? 

[00:30:18] Jerry Lee: Yes, wonsulting.com has everything that you need to know about there. If you’re looking for your next job and you’re looking to get started, wonsulting.com/resources. We have free resume templates, resume examples, cover letter templates, and everything that you need to get your job started.

[00:30:35] Jerry Lee: Of course, we have our services in case you do want to listen. John, Jerry, I don’t even want to think about it, just do it for me. We have our services there. And of course, if you are on social media, Wonsulting everywhere on YouTube, LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram, you’ll find us. 

[00:30:51] Bryan Pham: Amazing! Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

[00:30:54] Bryan Pham: We learned so much about you guys and Wonsulting. We wish you nothing but the best in the future. Thank you, guys. 

[00:31:00] Jerry Lee: Thanks for having us. 

[00:31:00] Jonathan Javier: Of course.